Pkease change my email on this group to adam@talkington.us.com. Thank you.
From: pcgen@yahoogroups.com [mailto:pcgen@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Wednesday, January 27, 2016 4:22
To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [pcgen] Digest Number 8342
11 Messages
Digest #8342
Error in Scarred Witch doctor by vampiregoat69
1b
Re: Error in Scarred Witch doctor by "Andrew" Drew0500
1c
Re: Error in Scarred Witch doctor by "Saxum Caribetum" saxumcaribetum
1d
Re: Error in Scarred Witch doctor by "Ragabash Moon" ragabashmoon@sbcglobal.net
2a
does PCGen have a policy on incorporating rules errata into datasets by "Saxum Caribetum" saxumcaribetum
2b
Re: does PCGen have a policy on incorporating rules errata into data by "Doug Limmer" distant_scholar
2c
Re: does PCGen have a policy on incorporating rules errata into data by "Saxum Caribetum" saxumcaribetum
2d
Re: does PCGen have a policy on incorporating rules errata into data by "Saxum Caribetum" saxumcaribetum
2e
Re: does PCGen have a policy on incorporating rules errata into data by "vze4v822" MqsTout
2f
Re: does PCGen have a policy on incorporating rules errata into data by "Doug Limmer" distant_scholar
2g
Re: does PCGen have a policy on incorporating rules errata into data by "Andrew" Drew0500
Messages
Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:08 am (PST) . Posted by:
vampiregoat69
according to Scarred Witch Doctor (Witch; Orc) - Pathfinder_OGC http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc they get but in the program it does not give that it uses con instead. Is there a way to fix that?
Fierce Intelligence A scarred witch doctor treats her Intelligence http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Intelligence-Int- score as 2 points higher when determining the highest level of spells she can cast, the number of spells she can cast per day, her spell save DCs, her number of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of her Witch - Pathfinder_OGC http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex determined by her Intelligence http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Intelligence-Int-.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex
Witch - Pathfinder_OGC http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex The Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules. This site is an SRD (System Reference Document) for the Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
View on www.d20pfsrd.com http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex
Preview by Yahoo
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc
Scarred Witch Doctor (Witch; Orc) - Pathfinder_OGC http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc The Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules. This site is an SRD (System Reference Document) for the Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
View on www.d20pfsrd.com http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc
Preview by Yahoo
Tue Jan 26, 2016 10:56 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Andrew" Drew0500
Hi,
There is no easy method to get that without massively altering the
existing system. I dare say that would fall into a code solution since
the data portion only sets the bar, the class internals just grab that bar.
The tag that controls that was a gamemode tag,
'DEFINE:MAXLEVELSTAT=INT|INTSCORE-10'
I could alter that, but if you played a multiclass spellcaster, like a
Wizard and Witch, the incorrect results would spill into both classes. A
corner case to be sure, but a valid concern.
Also, thanks for proving why we can only reference the official
publisher materials and not 3rd party sites. Unless there has been
errata, there is no fierce intelligence ability. What that says and what
the book says is completely different.
Cheers,
Andrew
On 1/26/2016 8:01 AM, vampiregoat69@yahoo.com [pcgen] wrote:
>
>
> according to Scarred Witch Doctor (Witch; Orc) - Pathfinder_OGC
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc> they
> get but in the program it does not give that it uses con instead. Is
> there a way to fix that?
>
>
> Fierce Intelligence
>
> A scarred witch doctor treats her Intelligence
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Intelligence-Int-> score
> as 2 points higher when determining the highest level of spells she
> can cast, the number of spells she can cast per day, her spell save
> DCs, her number of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of
> her Witch - Pathfinder_OGC
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex> determined by
> her Intelligence
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Intelligence-Int->.
>
>
>
>
> image <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex>
>
>
> Witch - Pathfinder_OGC
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex>
> The Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules. This site is an SRD
> (System Reference Document) for the Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
>
> View on www.d20pfsrd.com
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
>
>
> image
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc>
>
>
>
> Scarred Witch Doctor (Witch; Orc) - Pathfinder_OGC
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc>
>
> The Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules. This site is an SRD
> (System Reference Document) for the Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
>
> View on www.d20pfsrd.com
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc>
>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
>
>
Tue Jan 26, 2016 11:27 am (PST) . Posted by:
"Saxum Caribetum" saxumcaribetum
On 2016-01-26 16:01, vampiregoat69@yahoo.com [pcgen] wrote:
>
>
> according to Scarred Witch Doctor (Witch; Orc) - Pathfinder_OGC
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc> they
> get but in the program it does not give that it uses con instead. Is
> there a way to fix that?
>
D20pfsrd.com should not be considered an authority - however in this
case the Paizo site agrees.
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/advancedRaceGuide/featuredRaces/orcs.html#scarred-witch-doctor-%28witch%29
Aha! The printed book (ARG p.140) says "Constitution Dependent: A
scarred witch doctor uses Constitution instead of Intelligence ..."
Now I think about it, I remember some fierce discussion on the forums,
and that the official Errata changed it:
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/resources
*Pathfinder Roleplaying Game Advanced Race Guide*
/Last Updated - 7/29/2015/
* First Printing to Second Printing (v1.0) - Download (2.3MB zip/PDF)
<http://paizo.com/include/PZO1121-Errata-20150728-1.0.zip>
http://paizo.com/include/PZO1121-Errata-20150728-1.0.zip
"> *Page 140*—In the scarred witch doctor archetype, replace
the Constitution Dependent entry with the following:
*Fierce Intelligence*: A scarred witch doctor treats her
Intelligence score as 2 points higher when determining
the highest level of spells she can cast, the number of
spells she can cast per day, her spell save DCs, her number
of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of her hexes
determined by her Intelligence."
So... PCGen implements the rules in the first printing, which are
officially changed in the second printing.
>
> Fierce Intelligence
>
> A scarred witch doctor treats her Intelligence
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Intelligence-Int-> score
> as 2 points higher when determining the highest level of spells she
> can cast, the number of spells she can cast per day, her spell save
> DCs, her number of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of her
> Witch - Pathfinder_OGC
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex> determined by
> her Intelligence
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/basics-ability-scores/ability-scores#TOC-Intelligence-Int->.
>
>
>
>
> image <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex>
>
>
> Witch - Pathfinder_OGC
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex>
> The Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules. This site is an SRD
> (System Reference Document) for the Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
>
> View on www.d20pfsrd.com
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/classes/base-classes/witch#TOC-Hex>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
> image
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc>
>
>
>
> Scarred Witch Doctor (Witch; Orc) - Pathfinder_OGC
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc>
>
> The Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules. This site is an SRD
> (System Reference Document) for the Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game.
>
> View on www.d20pfsrd.com
> <http://www.d20pfsrd.com/races/other-races/featured-races/arg-orc/scarred-witch-doctor-witch-orc>
>
>
> Preview by Yahoo
>
>
>
>
--
Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
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Tue Jan 26, 2016 8:19 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Ragabash Moon" ragabashmoon@sbcglobal.net
The change to use Intelligence was a change made in a FAQ because um... it was too powerful to use Con or some such. So they nerfed it. Or something. Personally, I prefer the Con rules, I think that's more in spirit with the original design of the class.
SO I would suggest that there be two versions of this archetype. Leave the current one in, but rename it to "Scared Witch Doctor (Original)" or something... then create the new one.
Cause I for one still use the old version. I don't agree with their assessment that using it was OP, in fact I Think it's WORSE now... After all, a Half-Orc counts as an orc and can therefore take it. Put an 18 in Int then make your Half-Orc bonus +2 Int... throw this on top and you got a 22 Int witch at 1st level.
'Take my love, take my land, I don't care, I'm still free, you can't take the sky from me. Take me out to the Black, tell them I ain't comin' back, burn the land and boil the sea, you can't take the sky from me. There's no place I can be, since I've found Serenity, you can't take the sky from me." -- Joss Whedon, Ballad of Serenity RagabashMoon@sbcglobal.net
From: "vampiregoat69@yahoo.com [pcgen]" <pcgen@yahoogroups.com>
To: pcgen@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Tuesday, January 26, 2016 10:01 AM
Subject: [pcgen] Error in Scarred Witch doctor
according to Scarred Witch Doctor (Witch; Orc) - Pathfinder_OGC they get but in the program it does not give that it uses con instead. Is there a way to fix that?
Fierce Intelligence
A scarred witch doctor treats her Intelligence score as 2 points higher when determining the highest level of spells she can cast, the number of spells she can cast per day, her spell save DCs, her number of spells known at 1st level, and any effects of her Witch - Pathfinder_OGC determined by her Intelligence.
| |
| | | | Witch - Pathfinder_OGC The Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules. This site is an SRD (System Reference Document) for the Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. | |
| View on www.d20pfsrd.com | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
| |
| ! | | | Scarred Witch Doctor (Witch; Orc) - Pathfinder_OGC The Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game rules. This site is an SRD (System Reference Document) for the Paizo Pathfinder Roleplaying Game. | |
| View on www.d20pfsrd.com | Preview by Yahoo |
| |
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Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:38 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Saxum Caribetum" saxumcaribetum
The recent posts on the Scarred Witch Doctor Archetype lead me to ask:
* What is the policy in PCGen for incorporating the changes brought in
by errata?
I'm considering small scale, restricted rules changes - not anything of
the scope in Pathfinder Unchained.
The errata for the Scarred Witch Doctor include a significant change,
eliminating the paragraph in the 1st edition printing where Con is used
for magic in place of Int, replaced in the 2nd edition printing by a +2
bonus to Int where used for magic.
PCGen datasets are currently coded for the 1st printing.
* Are there (would there be) an intention to update the implementation?
* If you had a character built with the 1st printing rules, could you
carry on using said character when updates came through?
* if your GM was dithering about which rule to use, how might you select
between them?
--
Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
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Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:44 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Doug Limmer" distant_scholar
I think the (informal) policy is to treat errata as data bugs; report
'em, and we'll fix 'em. Sometimes data folk get enthused and implement
the entire set of errata at once. In the specific case of the Scarred
Witch Doctor, it sounds like it may require a somewhat major overhaul in
how not only the data are set up, but how the code works. That will
take ... a while.
To my knowledge, we've never shipped a version of PCGen with multiple
versions of an ability due to changes in printing. I imagine, under
usual circumstances, you could use the old data set instead of the new
one to get the old version.
DS/DL (Data 2nd)
On 01/26/2016 03:38 PM, Saxum Caribetum saxum.caribetum@ntlworld.com
[pcgen] wrote:
>
> The recent posts on the Scarred Witch Doctor Archetype lead me to ask:
>
> * What is the policy in PCGen for incorporating the changes brought in
> by errata?
>
> I'm considering small scale, restricted rules changes - not anything of
> the scope in Pathfinder Unchained.
>
> The errata for the Scarred Witch Doctor include a significant change,
> eliminating the paragraph in the 1st edition printing where Con is used
> for magic in place of Int, replaced in the 2nd edition printing by a +2
> bonus to Int where used for magic.
>
> PCGen datasets are currently coded for the 1st printing.
>
> * Are there (would there be) an intention to update the implementation?
>
> * If you had a character built with the 1st printing rules, could you
> carry on using said character when updates came through?
> * if your GM was dithering about which rule to use, how might you select
> between them?
>
> --
> Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
> ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++
> Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
> Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
> Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
>
> ---
> This email has been checked for viruses by Avast antivirus software.
> https://www.avast.com/antivirus
>
>
Tue Jan 26, 2016 1:48 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Saxum Caribetum" saxumcaribetum
On 2016-01-26 21:38, Saxum Caribetum saxum.caribetum@ntlworld.com
[pcgen] wrote:
> The recent posts on the Scarred Witch Doctor Archetype lead me to ask:
>
> * What is the policy in PCGen for incorporating the changes brought in
> by errata?
>
> I'm considering small scale, restricted rules changes - not anything of
> the scope in Pathfinder Unchained.
>
> The errata for the Scarred Witch Doctor include a significant change,
> eliminating the paragraph in the 1st edition printing where Con is used
> for magic in place of Int, replaced in the 2nd edition printing by a +2
> bonus to Int where used for magic.
>
> PCGen datasets are currently coded for the 1st printing.
>
> * Are there (would there be) an intention to update the implementation?
>
> * If you had a character built with the 1st printing rules, could you
> carry on using said character when updates came through?
> * if your GM was dithering about which rule to use, how might you select
> between them?
>
>
at present, the Pathfinder Core Rules have been through SIX printings,
each of which has incrementally added fixes and changes.
Ultimate Combat, Gamemastery Guide and Bestiary (first) have been
through 3 printings and changes each.
APG, ACG, ARG, UM, Bestiaries 2 & 3 have all been through 2 printings
and 1 set of changes.
All the changes can be downloaded free at
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/resources
These are all considered official by Paizo, and are (AFAIK), binding on
PFS players. Home campaigns may or may not use them, typically depending
on when purchased, and whether the GM likes to write in the books, or
whether they use the PDF downloads (which all update when the printing
is revised).
This is separate from and in addition to Paizo's FAQ pages
http://paizo.com/paizo/faq
The FAQ ought not to be actually altering the rules, but may affect how
(ambiguous) things are interpreted - and PCGen may not have taken the
interpretation chosen by the Paizo staff.
--
Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
Saga site at http://homepage.ntlworld.com/saxum.caribetum/
Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
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Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:16 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Saxum Caribetum" saxumcaribetum
On 2016-01-26 21:44, Doug Limmer adventure@mailworks.org [pcgen] wrote:
>
>
> I think the (informal) policy is to treat errata as data bugs; report
> 'em, and we'll fix 'em. Sometimes data folk get enthused and implement
> the entire set of errata at once.
individual errata vary from a few (6 or so) changes, to 10+ pages of
change listings. I can't imagine anyone would want to create Jira
entries for each change?
> In the specific case of the Scarred Witch Doctor, it sounds like it
> may require a somewhat major overhaul in how not only the data are set
> up, but how the code works. That will take ... a while.
Ought to be simple: remove the oddball bodge to allow Con to replace Int
for a prepared caster;
revert to Int for the prepared caster;
invoke a +2 bonus conditional to the archetype - similar to the +2 bonus
for specific Sorcerer bloodlines which many races carry.
It would have been the 1st printing rule that needed the messy changes
and code fix.
>
> To my knowledge, we've never shipped a version of PCGen with multiple
> versions of an ability due to changes in printing. I imagine, under
> usual circumstances, you could use the old data set instead of the new
> one to get the old version.
fair point!
>
> DS/DL (Data 2nd)
>
> On 01/26/2016 03:38 PM, Saxum Caribetum saxum.caribetum@ntlworld.com
> [pcgen] wrote:
>>
>> The recent posts on the Scarred Witch Doctor Archetype lead me to ask:
>>
>> * What is the policy in PCGen for incorporating the changes brought in
>> by errata?
>>
>> I'm considering small scale, restricted rules changes - not anything of
>> the scope in Pathfinder Unchained.
>>
>> The errata for the Scarred Witch Doctor include a significant change,
>> eliminating the paragraph in the 1st edition printing where Con is used
>> for magic in place of Int, replaced in the 2nd edition printing by a +2
>> bonus to Int where used for magic.
>>
>> PCGen datasets are currently coded for the 1st printing.
>>
>> * Are there (would there be) an intention to update the implementation?
>>
>> * If you had a character built with the 1st printing rules, could you
>> carry on using said character when updates came through?
>> * if your GM was dithering about which rule to use, how might you select
>> between them?
>>
--
Neil Taylor "Creo Imaginem Mente"
ArM Code 1.5 5++ Ca++ R++p H++ ?L Y(96) T(5)- SG+++ G++++ P++ HoH(Ma++ Q+ Hg+) Fz(E)++ C++ :-) Cd++
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Sub Rosa Ars Magica zine - http://www.subrosamagazine.org/
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Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:17 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"vze4v822" MqsTout
At least for items in the official PRD
(http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/), it would probably be best to
implement the errata as possible, or alerted-to.
On 01/26/2016 04:38 PM, Saxum Caribetum saxum.caribetum@ntlworld.com
[pcgen] wrote:
> The recent posts on the Scarred Witch Doctor Archetype lead me to ask:
>
> * What is the policy in PCGen for incorporating the changes brought in
> by errata?
>
> I'm considering small scale, restricted rules changes - not anything of
> the scope in Pathfinder Unchained.
>
> The errata for the Scarred Witch Doctor include a significant change,
> eliminating the paragraph in the 1st edition printing where Con is used
> for magic in place of Int, replaced in the 2nd edition printing by a +2
> bonus to Int where used for magic.
>
> PCGen datasets are currently coded for the 1st printing.
>
> * Are there (would there be) an intention to update the implementation?
>
> * If you had a character built with the 1st printing rules, could you
> carry on using said character when updates came through?
> * if your GM was dithering about which rule to use, how might you select
> between them?
>
>
Tue Jan 26, 2016 2:26 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Doug Limmer" distant_scholar
On 01/26/2016 04:16 PM, Saxum Caribetum saxum.caribetum@ntlworld.com
[pcgen] wrote:
>
> On 2016-01-26 21:44, Doug Limmer adventure@mailworks.org [pcgen] wrote:
>> In the specific case of the Scarred Witch Doctor, it sounds like it
>> may require a somewhat major overhaul in how not only the data are
>> set up, but how the code works. That will take ... a while.
> Ought to be simple: [...]
Often times, what looks simple on the outside is nothing but on the inside.
DS/DL
Tue Jan 26, 2016 5:13 pm (PST) . Posted by:
"Andrew" Drew0500
Hi,
Errata changes can and should be implemented. However, it is not always
as simple as people think.
We have a notes/comments in the pcc to track such things. I also think
infotext should include the errata update notification.
Keeping "multiple" copies of sets is not feasible. Keeping two copies up
to speed (6.06.x and master) is bad enough. Keeping bug fixes correct by
errata would be a logistics nightmare.
As far as a JIRA. A single Data Feature Request for the errata update
would be sufficient for EACH book that has an errata update.
Cheers,
Andrew
On 1/26/2016 2:26 PM, Doug Limmer adventure@mailworks.org [pcgen] wrote:
>
>
> On 01/26/2016 04:16 PM, Saxum Caribetum saxum.caribetum@ntlworld.com
> [pcgen] wrote:
>>
>>
>> On 2016-01-26 21:44, Doug Limmer adventure@mailworks.org [pcgen] wrote:
>>> In the specific case of the Scarred Witch Doctor, it sounds like
>>> it may require a somewhat major overhaul in how not only the data
>>> are set up, but how the code works. That will take ... a while.
>> Ought to be simple: [...]
> Often times, what looks simple on the outside is nothing but on the
> inside.
>
> DS/DL
>
>
>
>
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